Curse

il Priscilla il · Nov 17, 2011, 05:43 AM // 05:43

How are we asking to buy what others have achieved when we already have achieved the same titles? If you mean leveling the prof to 20..... No need to say anything about that.

Its been said before, this is not about having multiple gwamm, this about extending the gameplay of a character we already play the most. Not to mention the revenue that could be dumped further into gw2

cormac ap dunn · Nov 17, 2011, 11:18 AM // 11:18

Lets just get back to the root of this thread shall we?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tjal Lee

As title says i'd like the option for a primary profession change, not sure how it will work but they did it with Razah.

It's something I want very badly because im bored out of my mind with my current main character but I don't want to create another because of all the titles I have on my main.

Laziness and Boredom... And all in the name of titles. The Laziness argument; "I can't be bothered going through the game as it was intended on a new character because its long, hard to do, boring, repetitive, and achieving titles is a 'grind'." And the Boredom argument; "I need a reason to play my old character but I have done 'Everything' on it. All the content of the game is so 'difficult' to get through again, besides its my money and my character why shouldn't I be allowed to play the way I want to? There is a hero in the game (site Razah and Thackeray here)that has the ability anyway" Does that about sum up both of the arguments for the OPs original idea? Lets get to some simple invalidation for both of these arguments.

Most people have agreed that the 7 hero update has given everyone who owns either Eye of the North or Nightfall no excuse to not complete content, level, attain items and money, and achieve titles. Titles are not required to complete or to participate in any facet of the entire game, aside from self imposed or group pressured limitations. Your current GWAMM is about you showing off, feeling a sense of completion, feeling you have better use of builds... etc. The heroes that have been sited are there to help the player get through the content, the hero with the shifting profession has a wonderful lore reason to not have a dedicated primary (he's not a human, charr, asuran, or any other being in the game, you are welcome lore nerds.).

You not going through content in the game, leveling and playing a new character does have a very decided impact on the game. Leveling, running, buying new items, paying for title items, and generally expending cash in game is vital to the way the in game economy works. These are referred to as "cash sinks". Even the HoM has a need for new characters, without which the monument to Devotion would be all but impossible to complete. No new characters means no new minis which means future players will be unable to fill that hall. These are smaller arguments but are so absolutely necessary to the way the game functions, and they go ignored for the sake of the "I deserve this", "I payed for the game", "I should be allowed to have" retorts.

On a personal note I find the "I'm too lazy" side to be a weak argument for a full change of a game. We all see the shlubs in towns begging for gold and items because they don't want to go and play. What is the advice most of us give them? Go Play. The "I'm bored" crowd has much less of an excuse for wanting the entire game to change. If you are so bored with GW, feel you have done everything (which I guarantee most of you have not done EVERYTHING in the game) or generally feel entitled to a totally different game, I have some comforting advice... Go play something new, stop playing GW and pick up something that you WOULD enjoy. Thats not meant in a mean spirited way. If I go to a burger joint and want tacos guess what? I can't sit and huff and puff until they make me a taco, I'll likely be thrown out. Less whining will not only make you feel better, but the number of ways you can feel satisfied with the time you expend doing so will probably result in an all around happier life. For many of you, the time you have taken on these forums could have been used to make, level and even title a new character.

BettaDenU · Nov 17, 2011, 07:07 PM // 19:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Canthas Monk

Oh and Elder Scrolls isn't Guild Wars.

You are correct because you're in the Elder Scrolls you're character can advance in every skill without giving up another, here in Guild Wars changing your profession makes you give up one selection of skills for another.

..

Razah did not become a primary profession changing hero until like half a year ago in an update around April/May.
Before that Razah was a Ritualist and he's been like that since the release of Nightfall which was in 2006. You're welcome archivist nerds.

You all make very valid arguments and points which I take into consideration, but tell me this, when they day comes and you're playing a different primary profession which you very much enjoy and it suddenly hits you that you have to spend all this time again on this character to do everything all over again.

Do you want to fill up you're HoM again with Tormented weapons?
Do you want to pay another set of mini's?
Do you want to grind everything all over again? I'm not just talking about titles but also locations and WiK progress and WoC?

This has nothing to do with being lazy or being bored, from the very start of this game you could change you're secondary profession. How is paying to change you're primary such a bad idea? Especially in this game?

You're telling us that we are lazy, that's your opinion but you can't ask us to put that much effort into the same thing over and over again, I don't know about you but when I starting filling up my HoM I had alot of free time which I dont have anymore. I've got a fulltime job and i'm travelling to every corner in Europe.

I can't really comprehend why someone would decline this option since it gives no advantage in the game in the contrary to the mercenary and bonus weapon packs where you pay for advantage.

With this you don't you just get the optional option to change a primary profession for the sake of changing you're current gameplay and keep things interesting until Guild Wars 2 hits.

And some day the miniature market will run low on mini's how are you going to fill it up then? Favor will also run out and devs will have to fix that too. Oh and please give me a reason how miniature's and favor will have anything to do with a paid primary profession change option.

I have 10 char slots I have 2-3 PvE characters and 3 hero characters used the rest I use for PvP which is delete and recreate. How am I supporting the mini market without the paid primary profession option?

lorazcyk · Nov 17, 2011, 07:18 PM // 19:18

Look, PvP players can already pay for a full skill unlock pack, instead of grinding faction to unlock.
This gives them an advantage over people who can't or won't pay for the unlock pack. It takes a very, very long time to unlock skills through faction.

So how is this any different? It saves you time.

You're upset because someone can afford to spend money on this? Or maybe mommy and daddy won't let you use their debit card? Too bad, some of us won't mind paying for this. Will we save time? Yes. How does this affect your life? It doesn't.

EPIC noob · Nov 17, 2011, 07:32 PM // 19:32

lorazcyk... i don't see the point in 'playing' a game if someone can just bribe their way to the top. it's not about the cost but the ethics. would you like it if some gm got on a pvp and kept slaughtering you by abusing his power? that would be close to the same issue. i can afford it without my mom or dad using the card. but i don't want to play a game called 'i got more money in my wallet' or 'world of warcrap' , so i play 'guild wars' instead.

maybe someday when i am older i will make an online game that gives players the better ability the more money they shell out. then i can sit back, laugh, and get rich off people trying to out bid each other over a fictional fight online... i could call it 'eBay wars'. lol

lorazcyk · Nov 17, 2011, 08:48 PM // 20:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by EPIC noob

lorazcyk... i don't see the point in 'playing' a game if someone can just bribe their way to the top. it's not about the cost but the ethics. would you like it if some gm got on a pvp and kept slaughtering you by abusing his power?

People who buy skill unlock packs are abusing their power? Uh? They paid cash for a featured offered by anet.
Plus, primary profession change would affect no one, but the person who paid for it.

Quote:

that would be close to the same issue.

No, it's not. It's completely irrelevant. How will I, if I change my profession in PvE, abuse my powers towards YOU? Give me some examples. You can't even atack team mates, so I don't see how that would be possible. Will I change from a healing monk into a wammo warrior mid battle, thus ruining your speedclear? No, that won't be possible mid-battle.

Quote:

i can afford it without my mom or dad using the card. but i don't want to play a game called 'i got more money in my wallet' or 'world of warcrap' , so i play 'guild wars' instead.

It's entirely optional, you don't have to buy.

The Drunkard · Nov 17, 2011, 10:28 PM // 22:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by cormac ap dunn

@The Drunkard
What can I say, I had this great big post written for you, and in the end I have decided your probably not worth explaining things to.

'Tis a shame, but I'm not going to fret about it. When you're mature enough to get off your soapbox, let me know.

Quote:

Originally Posted by cormac ap dunn

You not going through content in the game, leveling and playing a new character does have a very decided impact on the game. Leveling, running, buying new items, paying for title items, and generally expending cash in game is vital to the way the in game economy works. These are referred to as "cash sinks". Even the HoM has a need for new characters, without which the monument to Devotion would be all but impossible to complete. No new characters means no new minis which means future players will be unable to fill that hall. These are smaller arguments but are so absolutely necessary to the way the game functions, and they go ignored for the sake of the "I deserve this", "I payed for the game", "I should be allowed to have" retorts..

-New players can get more minis as the game ages. If this idea were to be implemented, players would forgo the ability to sell minis if they want to extend the playtime of their older characters because they will not receive them. Additionally, just because a person has the ability to change their primary profession does NOT mean that they won't make characters to get free minis with spare slots.

-The OP is asking for an OPTIONAL feature, where not everyone will shell out $10 to not play any of their other characters. This will impact a small portion of the community, but be available for everyone so that no one is disadvantaged.

- All Anet has to do is, after the prof. change, is give the basic skills (IE: intro trainer), and people would still have to pay to unlock skills. It does not change the way they work, it does not require balancing, and the gold sink is still there.

-If they lock the armor so that you could only use it on a certain prof., then people would have to spend money to get more armor for their char. This would then cause storage issues, in which Anet can sell more of their storage panes in the in-game stores.

- People are lazy. So why shouldn't Anet capitalize on it? Anet makes money, and people have more incentive to play as well as a more positive attitude, since they don't have to spend 20+ hours getting a character ready for elite areas. It doesn't provide a crutch, it doesn't give people an unfair advantage, and it saves time doing menial, and stupid grinding (which is, incidentally, similar to the point you make on consumables titles)

It could be a very simple mechanic. You talk to a trader at GToB that brings you to the character creation screen. You would be allowed to pick your prof., customize the appearance (once, locked into the original gender) and remap to GToB.

Amnel Ithtirsol · Nov 17, 2011, 11:03 PM // 23:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Drunkard

-New players can get more minis as the game ages. If this idea were to be implemented, players would forgo the ability to sell minis if they want to extend the playtime of their older characters because they will not receive them. Additionally, just because a person has the ability to change their primary profession does NOT mean that they won't make characters to get free minis with spare slots.

-The OP is asking for an OPTIONAL feature, where not everyone will shell out $10 to not play any of their other characters. This will impact a small portion of the community, but be available for everyone so that no one is disadvantaged.

- All Anet has to do is, after the prof. change, is give the basic skills (IE: intro trainer), and people would still have to pay to unlock skills. It does not change the way they work, it does not require balancing, and the gold sink is still there.

-If they lock the armor so that you could only use it on a certain prof., then people would have to spend money to get more armor for their char. This would then cause storage issues, in which Anet can sell more of their storage panes in the in-game stores.

- People are lazy. So why shouldn't Anet capitalize on it? Anet makes money, and people have more incentive to play as well as a more positive attitude, since they don't have to spend 20+ hours getting a character ready for elite areas. It doesn't provide a crutch, it doesn't give people an unfair advantage, and it saves time doing menial, and stupid grinding (which is, incidentally, similar to the point you make on consumables titles)

It could be a very simple mechanic. You talk to a trader at GToB that brings you to the character creation screen. You would be allowed to pick your prof., customize the appearance (once, locked into the original gender) and remap to GToB.

Some very valid points... I was against the idea at first but it would make sense if implemented this way.

./signed

cormac ap dunn · Nov 17, 2011, 11:12 PM // 23:12

Simply put, this isn't happening anyway. I rather like my soapbox as it affords me the wonderful view of the simplton above me. Just because you feel ALL of the "simple" additions you propose are possible doesn't make them feasible. Catering to the minority just means more being asked for when they get it. My next thread is going to be based solely on the "new" generation of players who want to be spoon fed everything. It would seem that Sardelac is a breading ground for the lazy, the self entitled and the unaware. So when you can get off your belly, crawl up to this soapbox, it has a wonderful view when you take off your rose colored glasses.

Kaleban · Nov 18, 2011, 12:01 AM // 00:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by cormac ap dunn

Simply put, this isn't happening anyway. I rather like my soapbox as it affords me the wonderful view of the simplton above me. Just because you feel ALL of the "simple" additions you propose are possible doesn't make them feasible. Catering to the minority just means more being asked for when they get it. My next thread is going to be based solely on the "new" generation of players who want to be spoon fed everything. It would seem that Sardelac is a breading ground for the lazy, the self entitled and the unaware. So when you can get off your belly, crawl up to this soapbox, it has a wonderful view when you take off your rose colored glasses.

WOW. LOL. Just LOL.

Answer one simple question. How does having the OPTION to pay for a primary profession change of a character impact anyone else's gameplay?

Whether you believe its laziness or boredom is irrelevant, you're assigning value judgments to people you haven't even met, and are making gross assumptions about peoples' motivations.

In this very thread are people who have posted stating that its not because they're lazy, its because they would like to experience the game in a different way, have not the time to bring a brand new character to the point their main character is, and are willing to pay for the opportunity, and ALL the while not impacting anyone else's gameplay in the slightest!

Yet you continue to ignore these comments because they blow your lazy/boredom soapboxing out of the water, as does common sense.

Seeing as how the system is already in place (see Mercenaries, Razah, Name Change, Makeovers, etc.) its really not a problem to implement something like this.

I can see how you enjoy soapboxing though, it means you don't need to acknowledge rational arguments that defeat your own baseless assertions.

Canthas Monk · Nov 18, 2011, 12:01 AM // 00:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by cormac ap dunn

Simply put, this isn't happening anyway.

This.

If people are too lazy and or too bad at the game (the people in favour of the idea) to have more than 1 character, then that's tough, don't play. And don't try to argue because purchasing items from the in game store instead of working for them in game is the definition of laziness and being bad at the game. You won't find one decent player in favour of this option, have fun wasting your time with it though. /wave

Kaleban · Nov 18, 2011, 12:03 AM // 00:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Canthas Monk

This.

If people are too lazy and or too bad at the game (the people in favour of the idea) to have more than 1 character, then that's tough, don't play. And don't try to argue because purchasing items from the in game store instead of working for them in game is the definition of laziness and being bad at the game. You won't find one decent player in favour of this option, have fun wasting your time with it though. /wave

/facepalm

See Above

Outerworld · Nov 18, 2011, 12:32 AM // 00:32

If it's an issue of titles, then it would be easier to make just make them all account wide. Can't say I'm fond of either idea though.

lorazcyk · Nov 18, 2011, 01:07 AM // 01:07

Yes, that troll must have a very difficult life, if he can't even manage properly discussing a simple forum thread.
I don't know how to dumb it down even further, my questions are quite clear. His train of thought is not quite logical. I bet this phrase makes perfect sense to him too: "I hate summer, it's too hot. I love silky lingerie. Have I told you my grandma makes the best apple pie? Last year I saw a tree growing upside down!"

His answers make as much sense of that >_>
It's very funny to read though, it's always enlightening to remember how most people are incapable of articulating themselves. Thanks for the entertainment.

By the way, all of you saying "This will never happen", that's against the Sardelac forum rules. You can read them, it's a sticky thread.

I think the person is just upset that they will not be able to shell out the cash for the profession change, and then they will feel sad that they have to repeat everything in a new character. Yeah, that's a stretch, but I can't imagine what other reason he could have against this!

cormac ap dunn · Nov 18, 2011, 01:10 AM // 01:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaleban

/facepalm

See Above

You seem to be a very mad little fella/fellette. Relax, breath, understand people don't have to agree with you. It will all be fine.

----------

Quote:

Originally Posted by lorazcyk

I think the person is just upset that they will not be able to shell out the cash for the profession change, and then they will feel sad that they have to repeat everything in a new character. Yeah, that's a stretch, but I can't imagine what other reason he could have against this!

You really are quite funny. Thus far your arguments have been "Why can't I?" "But my boyfriend can't play!" and the like... given your other thread on here you don't seem to have a whole lot of input that actually follows logic. I mean, afterall, on that one when you were given a solution to the issue you had, you just cried about another.

yitjuan · Nov 18, 2011, 01:20 AM // 01:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by lorazcyk

Look, PvP players can already pay for a full skill unlock pack, instead of grinding faction to unlock.
This gives them an advantage over people who can't or won't pay for the unlock pack. It takes a very, very long time to unlock skills through faction.

No it doesn't , it takes a few FA or JQ games to get an FOTM build.

cormac ap dunn · Nov 18, 2011, 03:05 AM // 03:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by yitjuan

No it doesn't , it takes a few FA or JQ games to get an FOTM build.

Before the inevitable response from our oh so lazy fellow players lets not forget, that takes minimal effort. And as this thread bares witness, that's more then these folks would be willing to put in. So as sensible and well, to be brutal to those who will respond in the negative, LOGICAL as that may seem, its bound to go against the spirit of all that they are saying.

lorazcyk · Nov 18, 2011, 03:36 AM // 03:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by yitjuan

No it doesn't , it takes a few FA or JQ games to get an FOTM build.

So are you saying that buying the entire skill pack does not provide an advantage? Fine, let's go with that.
So let's say, in the same vein, that "No, buying the profession change does not give an advantage. You can just play through the game in a new character".

Do you see the similarity? Since we have the skill pack, even though, as you say, it provides no advantage, then it should be OK to have a profession change too.

Quote:

You really are quite funny. Thus far your arguments have been "Why can't I?" "But my boyfriend can't play!"

What? Have you read my posts? How about responding to the questions I raised?

Quote:

and the like... given your other thread on here you don't seem to have a whole lot of input that actually follows logic. I mean, after all, on that one when you were given a solution to the issue you had, you just cried about another.

What, the gaming keypad? I don't want a gaming keypad, I didn't ask for one. I did not ask for help on how I can change things. I clearly stated I use my mouse for selecting characters. And either way, answers should be relevant to the suggestion in the opening post (*). It does follow logic that a person who uses a mouse to select characters will not like a gaming pad. If I like selecting characters, that's what I like, I have my reasons. It's none of your business.

(*) So please talk about this post.

Amnel Ithtirsol · Nov 18, 2011, 03:44 AM // 03:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by cormac ap dunn

Before the inevitable response from our oh so lazy fellow players lets not forget, that takes minimal effort. And as this thread bares witness, that's more then these folks would be willing to put in. So as sensible and well, to be brutal to those who will respond in the negative, LOGICAL as that may seem, its bound to go against the spirit of all that they are saying.

Please stop. The assumption that people in favour of this are all "lazy" is just that. An assumption.

Oh, and all the "This will never happen" statements flying around... remember when players first requested 7 heroes?

Kaleban · Nov 18, 2011, 04:15 AM // 04:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by cormac ap dunn

You seem to be a very mad little fella/fellette. Relax, breath, understand people don't have to agree with you. It will all be fine.

----------

You really are quite funny. Thus far your arguments have been "Why can't I?" "But my boyfriend can't play!" and the like... given your other thread on here you don't seem to have a whole lot of input that actually follows logic. I mean, afterall, on that one when you were given a solution to the issue you had, you just cried about another.

And your logic is quite fail as well, it amounts to, "I don't agree, I'm not sure why, but I'll refrain from engaging in constructive debate, and instead call anyone who disagrees lazy and bored."

And I'm not mad, just amazed really how you fail to answer the questions put forth yet continue to post nonsense.

Again, I'll ask:

How does the option for a paid profession change in any way affect your gameplay experience?

How does not having enough time to "main" two or more characters constitute being lazy, given the fact that the average player will both be unable to complete all content in one weekend (probably impossible anyway) AND has r/l obligations precluding the possibility?

Its ANet's job to make a fun game. Adding an option that adds to the experience while creating ZERO negatives is a no-brainer.